1z is much better

I have to agree with you fully - this beta 1Z is the first version that is really starting to feel like a strategy game. Keep up the good work.

Good feel and must quicker response.

Did I miss where the option was to turn on/off ranges? I was under the impression that some people were violently against ranges.

Also, is the initial range supposed to be so far? In the OS/2 version at the start of the game a colony ship's range was 1, here it is 3. Is this good?

Cheers,
Jack

We may be adjusting the ranges after we get the techs in that will affect your range. Some people are violently against the ranges, but they were seriously outvoted and we haven't decided what we would have to do to the scoring system to make it fair if we allowed people to disable ranges. Thanks for all the positive comments, guys.

We'll almost certainly have an option to turn off ranges for those who don't like them.

Once the star bases are in, we'll be able to do a LOT more with ranges since players can simply build a star base to extend their range.

I must admit, I am very excited about the star bases. Everything else in the game (more or less) was in the OS/2 version. But not star bases. It's all new to me, I have no idea what that will be like but I can't wait to find out.

Minor races are new too but that's just like having more players.

I'm very enthusiastic about the possibility of having minor races. "Star Trek: Birth of the Federation" had them, and they added a rich dimmension that "Master of Orion 2" did not have--where the so-called Galaxy (with less than 70 stars) sometimes felt dead, lifeless (discounting "eels" & "dragons")... Any dimension which adds variety, complexity, subtle nuances is welcomed.

As far as MoO2 goes, there was the Antarans (which, incidentally, was how I usually won the game. Half the time, it ended up with two or three races left, myself usually with a massive tech advantage [I actually had one game where I had Hyperadvanced Construction 121, simply because the signed short ints kept me from being able to transfer the scientists back to other jobs usefully], and one with a fleet large enough to keep those tech advantages from being employable.)

That having been said, I'll agree that having a number of minor races would be better.

Our internal build have 5 minor races. The main limitation presently is actually comin gup with different colors for each one.

I never considered the Antarians in MOO2 a minor race. It was more like they were the ultimate target of the game.

Cheers,
Jack

I agree: Antarians were not a "minor" race..."Star Trek BOTF" got it right: its minor races had distinct personalities with special abilities, and they were often not easy to charm and manipulate. Whereas in MOO2, most major races could easily be bought off with gifts: it was too easy to seduce them into a sense of peaceful harmony while biding your time to backstab them. That pseudo-strategy never gave me a deep sense of pleasure or power: it made me feel like a cheap pedophile handing out candy. :notsure:

For me MOO2 was simply a space combat strategy game with technology.

Cheers,
Jack

I would just like to have empire have a moral code and stick to it. It always seemed to me that dispite their 'philosophy' at the bottom of it money and gifts would sway them every time. Or they would claim to be your friend and stab you in the back the first time the opportunity showed itself. It was too much 'play to win' to be believable diplomacy.....no depth at all.

I have always thought that it would be harder and more interesting if the people had moral or philosophical viewpoints or decisions that they wouldn't change regardless of the gifts. I think the AI's sticking to something would make it harder diplomatically and strategically.

Well right now money and gifts work in GalCiv but that's a temporary thing. Haven't had time to put in alliance treaties so this was an easy way to test out alliances.

That's what I figured. That's why I'm on the beta test for this game........I love breaking new ground..........It's almost more fun than actually playing the game..........

I agree very much with Tytan : Races should be fundamentally constrained by a Philosophy (or 'Weltanschauung', such as Monotheism or Communism) that would filter & color diplomatic relationships--instead of ethical-neutral mechanics of basic threats & treats. For example: a monetary gift would had no effect on a sincere religious fanatic--you couldn't buy him off, you would have to agree with some of his religious ideas...I think you have it right, Citizen Tytan, but this design-perspective would require more sophisticated & complex programming...I'm curious to see how the upcoming MOO 3 will handle diplomatic exchanges. The designers have removed an important philosophical feature because they argued that its effects took too long to impact. That's unfortunate: I prefer a game with long-term, meta-strategic depth instead of short-term, micro-strategic twitch.

I just got the AI "Cheese" evaluation thread checked in internally.

Basically, all it does is go through and detect player patterns that match up with common strategies people employ to beat computer AI's.

One typical one is to mass up your units and transports and then do a single massive attack. The computer players will not detect this pattern and plan for it accordingly (right now I just have it give you a smart alek message letting you know that it knows what you're doing).

BTW, each side does have its own moral philosphioes:

Evil, Neutra/Evil, Neutral, Neutral/Good, Good.

This may not seem like a ton of different philosophies but it does make a big difference (it did in the OS/2 version). And we'll be expanding on it here.

"Evil, neutral/evil, neutral, neutral/good, good" : I'm OK with that axiological structure. It depends on how you will "be expanding on it" in terms of diplomatic relations. Not an easy programming job if you really want to push it further than MOO 2 in terms of sophisticated complexity...Speaking of diplomacy, I'm trying out "Medieval: Total War" this Saturday. The Spanish Catholic king has yet to accept to send one of his daughters to marry one of my Calif's sons. He has rebuked a dozen of my emissary's requests. Realistic, I suppose: we each consider the other as a religious infidel. My islamic patience is wearing thin.

I want the AI personalities to give the players of this game who are not on the beta some really nasty shocks(I love nasty shocks!). When they try that tired, lame ol' strategy and all of a sudden when the diplomats don't give in, stick to their guns, and the battleships are where they are not supposed to be and the alliances suddenly turn around on them and they suddenly realize with a small little knot growing in their stomach, "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!"

That is what I am looking forward to, its like going to the mall and suddenly realizing you're buck naked.........

Again, Tytan, I agree with you 100%. The game should have a more or less secret repertoire of multiple,pre-programmed AI personalities which could make randomised appearances in the games. As Tytan suggests, you could not always succeed in manipulating a Race by always using the "tired,lame ol' strategy" (such as showering it with gifts) because in different games, the alien Race would react according to different dominant AI personalities...1993's "Master of Orion" had that (such as a "ruthless industrialist" Meklar leader), and also in 1996's MOO 2, but it was too simple: the human player easily knew the tricks to manipulate those simple AI personalities. For example, if a "ruthless expansionist" Sakkra embassador (backed by a huge fleet) tried to bully you by demanding one of your planets, it was easy to give him that planet to make him happy (you saw the meter turn to green!) and buy time before massing your own huge fleet. If you replied "No", the Sakkra diplomatic meter turned red and you were most often attacked--losing more than one planet. That was too simple and it became boringly repetitive. So, I agree on both counts with Tytan: you need diverse AI philosophies in synergy with different AI personalities. But in what concerns "going to the mall", I have no comment. :notsure:

"It's like going to the mall and suddenly realizing you're buck naked..." : I'm always perplexed by your choice of images, citizen Tytan. :notsure: