Do they cheat?

Oh please, lets have some level of maturity on this board. Was it really necessary to use profanity in your nickname, much less the message? Simply telling us you are 12 and asking your question would have been sufficient. :notsure:

I should not do this, but... type "cheat" into the search box on this website (presuming you are using the website and not Stardock Central), you will see this question has been discussed.
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Amen to that. And they don't cheat.

Well said mswaim.

~SDC~

LOL! Thanks for the laugh mswaim!

No they dont cheat. It justs seems like it until you master the economic sliders.

They do cheat at the highest difficulty levels, at least in terms of getting some extra bonuses.


~SDC~

I've "adjusted" his nick to remove the profanity.

Arrgh.. They DO NOT CHEAT. They receive clearly documented bonuses.

Cheating is (Websters): To deceive and defraud; to impose upon; to trick; to swindle.

If Stardock said 'Hey, the AI plays by completely the same rules and stats as the human players at all levels,' then allowed the AI bonuses, THAT would be cheating. The AI plays within its clearly stated parameters, therefore since those parameters are made known to the human player - and they are able to play against those parameters accordingly, the AI DOES NOT CHEAT!!!! Hmmmm....I think there should be an addendum to Godwin's law - something along the lines of:

- In any thread discussing gaming and artificially generated players (aka AI or Computer Opponents) the probability of the AI (and by default the developers) being accused of cheating approaches unity in direct proportion to the length of the thread.


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There was more where that came from, but I restrained myself from my original witty and potentially much more caustic post.

Honestly though, given the open nature of this forum, you would think some people would have more sense. Not that I am stuck up and don't know the value of a good swear-word at the appropriate time and place , but kids do visit.

Thanks for the edit Nako!

Sedennial, I agree, it is not a cheat if it is documented behavior... I have no problem with that.

if they don't cheat, how can a minor build diplomatic translators on the second turn -- do they start with diplomacy and go mega-deeply into debt?

Hey - I've seen that, too! It's a good point; basically many strategy games seem to substitute the idea of 'good AI' with 'give the AI amazing bonuses' and use that as the real tool to make the game harder for the human player. Sedennial is right, of course - it's not cheating if Stardock SAY the AI is getting these bonuses and you are not; that's the price of playing at the hardest level. I do wonder about the 'pop up' instant bonus, though....

The exact stats for minors are not documented, but they are known to always start with a high-class planet, which tends to make them an early tagret, so they also get some bonuses to make it harder to get rid of them on the first couple of turns. They never expand much, though, so they are quickly overwhelmed by the majors unless one of the majors does some high-scale tech and starbase trading with them. This is an intentional part of the game's design.

As far as I know, none of those bonuses are economic in nature.

They don't have to build much because they only have one planet to deal with, so they could possibly be in a position to put nearly all of their money into research. I can't see how to get Diplomacy by turn two, but it is concievable to hit by turn four under the right conditions.

~SDC~

I've never seen a clear and outright cheat by the AI majors but the minors . . . well they do seem to start with alot of money. They ussualy can buy Dip' Trans' outright if you sell them the tech

I have to say I'm impressed by the cinility of this forum...

While I'm no prude, its good to see the politeness & good will here, considering what may be found around the net.

BTW what the original nickname (i'm intrigued)? I suppose use something like f**k

But on topic, what exactly are the parameters of the AI races that we're supposed to know about??

Stupot

Stupot74, do you mean the bonuses the AI gets on Crippling and Maso? Mmmm . . . I'll see if I can find a link to that . . . I know it's somewhere around 'ere?

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Actually, Stardock doesn't resort to only that. The ai routines are supposed to get better as the ai raises: A subnormal ai will not notice that you are building a culture bomb in its home sector, but a bright one may, and an incredible one will.
The pumping of stats has been done because it's an easy way to provide more challenge. A variant is to give the ai a better starting position, which is typically the case in strategy games with scenarios (starts out easy, and then the ai doesn't get better, but the map harder).

Thanks, Nakor!

Good job Nakor, nice taste by the way. LOL

mswaim - Feel free to join the Kingdom of Aldar - you will fit right in

"Consequences schmonsequences..."
- D Duck

Thanks Aldar! I have been considering joining an empire to pool points and feel like I am contributing to a greater cause. Let me think on it...

Your logo is oddly appealing, it screams simplicity, yet rejects copyright infringment. LOL

Back OT (sort of): Concerning the improved AI at harder levels, I loved the way my competiters protested a massive military build up next to thier worlds... I felt like they were going to wet themselves. I agree they should feel this way when Terror Stars are built anywhere. It reminds me of the protests in MOO 1 when chemical or biological weapons are used from orbit.

I did find it fishy that I was able to trade techs for a few combat transports which I proptly turn right back around just as they left port and invaded the exact world from which they came. Perhaps the transports should be emptied when they are traded... I can not recall, but I think they were topped off with 5000m troops.

A favorite tactic of mine! It's also a great way to reduce their population before your invasion as the transports you get will be loaded the same way yours would be (i.e. either half their population or 5000m troops). This is so helpful in a Tiny or Small map, where the AI may not have but one or two systems. Unfortunately, I've never found a way to trade for transports against minors.
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Even if you can't trade for trasports, you can send a small ship to destroy them in orbit if there are no combat ships present. Generally, transports and colony ships will take their default loadout worth of people along for the ride when they get destroyed, making the following conquest much easier LOL

Yeah, I unless, like me you install the mod that beefs up combat transports. They were tearing my battleships up!

OK mswaim, fair enough about my nickname...

In my defence, I went through the nickname page about, oooh, 17 times before finally losing my rag and swearing at it. Obviously this was a mistake, as it immediately accepted this (unused) nickname and I'm now stuck with it. Nakor, please feel free to adjust my nickname permanently.

It would also seem that my use of profanity worked extremely well in enticing replies to my post, so it seems I'm justified in this.

With regard to the use of the word CHEAT, I feel that this encompasses exactly what I was asking, and I got the appropriate responses, so again I am justified.

And, in fact, they do 'cheat': As an experiment I adjusted my sliders immediately as game started to get 100% spend rate, 60% tax rate, and 100% research rate, and one of the minors still beat me to the diplomatic translators. I immediately 'spoke' to the race concerned, and found their treasury to be just over 5000bc. Therefore, they do not start on the same footing as I do. Also, the growth rate of the Altarians is frighteningly fast, as I mentioned before.

It is 'well documented' that Ben Johnson used drugs in the 1980-something olympics... does that mean he wasn't cheating because it was 'documented'?

Thanks for all your replies chaps, and I'm glad I gave you something to do with your day, mswain.

Minors aren't supposed to start on an equal footing. They have big initial cash reserves, but don't build starbases and rarely colonise other worlds.
There is also random variation in starting position. The planet quality of earth varies from game to game.
(And 60% tax rate might be too high.)

~SDC~

I think that your next step would be to join an empire and use your talents for the cause of justice and equality for the entire galaxy. So choose wisely and avoid the Darkness.