[Feedback] General feedback on concept and graphics

from Elemental Forums

Foreword:

I blindly bought SK as I liked the uphill battle idea and had a lot of fun with FE and FE:LH. However I am kind of surprised now and really felt the urge to make a list of PROs and CONs (especially with regard to FE). Maybe some people agree and/or the Stardock devs find this helpful.

 

Concept:

Pro:

- I generally like the uphill battle idea.

- The game is easier to get into. Not really relevant for me, but I appreciate it nevertheless.

- Logisitics system is an interesting way of having to decide between growth via city population or military might.

- Outpost and city defense is rather nice. However it does seem a bit overpowered.

- Bigger armies! Yay!

 

Cons:

- In case there will only be the battle against the SK this could get boring fairly fast. Also, in his current state the SK just seems like an odd mechanic I have to handle, i.e. there is no immersion. I also find the graphics style combined with the setting a bit odd.

- Generally there are very few options, i.e. less monsters, less units, no techs, perks. However the game is still in development, so that was to be expected. Still I am missing a lot of options/detail from FE.

- Less detailed unit stats. Although I agree with not overdoing unit stats it's now a fairly simple system.

- The crafting system to me seems rather lack luster, i.e. although I was craving a MoM like crafting system in FE this is definately not what I was hoping for. I already disliked the way FE handled unit and hero equipment, e.g. I might have enough metal to create legions of soldiers in plate armour, but have to buy plate armour for my heroes with gold. Imho SK seems to be worse ("seems" as I don't know if I am missing something), e.g. I really don't get why I have to farm ingredients like metal and leather for armour. It especially makes no sense to me as this farmy game style really reminds of MMORPGs and doesn't fit with the way how a lot of tediousness has been removed.

- The levelling of cities is less immersive and cool as it used to be. Although I do like the "tile decision" I really miss the immersive way how cities grew into specific city hubs renowned for their scribes or smiths.

- The levelling of heroes is (at the moment) extremely boring. Not many abilities and only a few specialization options. However I suppose this is subject to change.

- What happened to wildlands? Are they still there and I just haven't found them yet?

 

GUI and graphics:

Pro:

- Very nice new menus

Con:

- I am currently desperately searching for the option to queue production itmes in cities. Is this really missing or did I just not find it?

- Graphics style. However thats a personal choice. Some people actually prefer this style. I just don't think it fits to the setting.

- Cities don't grow visually like they did in FE, i.e. a big city was actually a big city and didn't just build higher towers. However some people prefer it that way.

 

Conclusion:

While SK gained a unique play mode (fight the SK), which is oddly enough not really immersive, it lost a lot of unique features. In fact imho FEs biggest strength was that everything levels and I would have actually expected more of that and not less, i.e. perk trees for units (bandits, peasants, elite troops) and more meaningful levelling options for cities.

If you cut away the play mode there is almost nothing unique (besides the initiative based combat system) to SK anymore. It's suddenly missing the gameplay uniqueness that separated it from WoM (MoM reloaded) and AoW.

7,275 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from SorcererKing Forums Top


1. I really don't get why I have to farm ingredients like metal and leather for armour.
2. ... the option to queue production [items] in cities. Is this really missing ...?

1. What do you mean by "farm"?  Basic leather/chain/plate armor requires only craft items that you recover as loot.  They never require map resources in your ZOC.

As of Beta 3, some new recipes have been added that give you the option of a (severely underpowered??) Aspect of something, which does cost you some resources.  This is a new game mechanism, so the power scale is surely unbalanced (toward the nerfed/coaster side).

  • Aspect of Speed: 2 horses for +1 Initiative
  • Armor Improvement: 2 metal for +1 armor (I guess it stacks with your actual armor)
  • others?

I think they're not worth the cost.  Later, they can get rebalanced.

2. There is no queue :dur: Chant with your sensei: there is no queue, there is no queue, there is no queue, ommmmm

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Greetings!

Thanks for taking the time to give us feedback on the game.  I have a few followup questions I'd like to get your thoughts on:

  1. When you say fewer monsters, what types of monsters are you missing that you liked in LH? We have a lot of monsters in SK but perhaps there is something specific you're looking for that we could add in?
  2. Which champions did you level? What specific types of leveling from LH did you like that you feel is missing here?
  3. I'm not sure I'm understanding what you mean when you say everything levels. Everything levels up here as well. 

The crafting system is being updated in January.  You will work very similarly to how it worked in MOM.

There is no queue, it's not necessary now because of the way the turn button works.

 

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gilmoy, reply 1

1. What do you mean by "farm"? Basic leather/chain/plate armor requires only craft items that you recover as loot. They never require map resources in your ZOC.


 

But I can't just create them via the corresponding map ressources, right? I would have actually preferred that the chainmail for a hero to depend on the same map ressources as for my regular units.

 

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

Greetings!

Thanks for taking the time to give us feedback on the game.  I have a few followup questions I'd like to get your thoughts on:

 

        When you say fewer monsters, what types of monsters are you missing that you liked in LH? We have a lot of monsters in SK but perhaps there is something specific you're looking for that we could add in?

 

        Which champions did you level? What specific types of leveling from LH did you like that you feel is missing here?

 

        I'm not sure I'm understanding what you mean when you say everything levels. Everything levels up here as well.

 


The crafting system is being updated in January.  You will work very similarly to how it worked in MOM.

There is no queue, it's not necessary now because of the way the turn button works.

 


 

1. The only monsters I have seen so far: Darklings, Bandits, Wraiths, Spiders and the occasional dragon. However I was also referring to the option to actually build monsters (Cult of a hundred eyes). I added the same scaling to the ones you can build in FE and they were actually fun units. I was a big fan of the option to recruit ogres, trolls and the occascional hunters/swordsmen as well. After tweaking them for a bit they were atually fun to use and a ressource to fight over. I tried multiple things. From changing their unit size, to letting them earn perks and to making them a ressource that can be used for production of ogre/troll units. Imho this small feature of the game had enormous potential of being a really unique aspect.

 

2. Mostly priest and a bit of the wizard. I actually liked having my sovereign ride (or walk) into battle in FE, i.e. being an actual unit. Is this gone for good, not yet in or did I just miss it? I also really enjoyed how in the master's affliction mod branching character classes were added. LH introduced a more transparent approach to character development, i.e. you could see all perks right away. However it did not add significant depth. In SK, when looking at my champ, the skill tree is both small and fairly boring, i.e. it's not really role defining and/or immersive.

Character development based on quest choices would have been a nice addition to the levelling system, i.e. perks (preferably with up- AND downsides) based on moral decisions.

 

3. Maybe to explain where I am coming from: MoM is still THE 4x fantasy strategy game for me and up to FE all contenders (or better heirs) kind of tried to copy MoM, but never really managed to even do that fully.

FE added a meaningful and immersive levelling/progression for almost anything:

- Heroes: Actual classes with perk choices and with the mod mentioned above even branching classes.

- Cities: That actually completely surprised me. Cities would visually grow on the map and no longer be this one tile thing that either just had a number on it (remember CIV 1?) or would just look a bit different. A thriving empire now really looked like a thriving empire. More city levels and more impact on gameplay would have been really nice, i.e. a fortress could get actual city walls (I always wondered why those were missing...). Maybe even multiple defense rings with fixed defense units. Generally I would have thought you would explore this further instead of going back to one tile cities with a fairly generic levelling system (or maybe that's just a placeholder?).

- Units: A lot of games added this. However it was possible (with some minor XML tweaking) to actually let them earn perks, which was way overpowered, but choosing a unit's type during design and adding a perk tree to it would have been a nice addition, i.e. armed peasants start with lower stats, but cost no upkeep and contribute to the food production of the city they are stationed in. Professional soldiers could on the other hand have a higher upkeep and get access to perks enhancing their fighting abilities, e.g. shield wall (defense boost based on type of shields and number of remaining members of the unit).

- Monsters (both the ones you can build and the actual "mobs"): In addition to the current monster progression system that had a fixed scaling per monster type. Perk trees would have been cool as well, e.g. a young hoarder spider could slowly grow into this very scary monster (maybe even named) with a deadly venomous bite and thick chitin carapace.

 

=> To me the progression of the world itself (both visually and stat wise) made the game very immersive. Adding this concept consistently to all aspects of the game would have been really awesome. The SK is a really nice new idea for a new play mode, but the core of the game (to me at least) is something entirely different. It's the actual world and how its aspects interact with me and itself and how my choices affect it, i.e. the emergent narrative/gameplay.