Maxtipherous Maxtipherous

Lightning Alpha Strike formula

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Lightning Alpha Strike formula

from Stardock Forums
This is, I think, a radical approach to an alpha strike. When Ginata played 5 gigantic Maso games in 3 days I was shocked, and began thinking of ways to play a lightning game. This is the result. Today I played a 60,000 point gigantic masochistic in a little over 2 hours, no CTL-U, coupla CTL-N's to start with some isolation. Earth was PQ 17, also 1 PQ 20 and 4 PQ 15 -- 6 total!!! I did restart to race a minor for two PQ 15's, and I got the 35 Base random event on my 20 PQ, which makes less difference in this style than in others.

I know formulaic games aren't fun for most players -- I personally find them a fascinating way to explore the subtlties of the game mechanics.

Notes:

1) Starbases only for range and Terror Stars. No production, trade, cultural enhancements. No Resources!
2) Exploits are limited to Alpha-Strike, bribing for war or peace.
3) Trade only for technology on the list -- skip any pre-requisites if possible
4) Don't bother with wonders except Eyes of the Universe if you like. Build Trade Goods only if your planets dry up, but switch to Antimatter Generator when it becomes available.
5) Trade for morale enhancers, Gravity Accelerators
6) No Pondering! Everything is planned and executed precisely.

Build Order (* is optional placement, # was skipped this game accidently,& is optional)

Soil Enhancement
Banking Center
Entertainment Center
Habitat Improvement
Manufacturing Center
Fusion Generator
*Multimedia center
Antimatter Generator
Stadium
#Transporters
Harmony Generator
Stock Market
Economic Exchange
&News Network
&Medical Center
&Embassy
&Research Lab

Research Order (modify for alternate build order,& is optional)
(modify to keep your social build-queue filled)
(I traded cash for nearly a quarter of these last game)

Communication Theory
Universal Translator
Diplomacy
Trade
Medical Theory
Basic Environmental Control
Industrial Theory
Propulsion Theory
Cold Fusion
Interstellar refining
~~~~~~~~
Nano Electronics
Nano-Frequency Electronics
&Stellar Cartography
Sensors
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Impulse Drive
Antimatter
Zero-Gee Manufacturing
~~~~~~~~~
Advanced Diplomacy
Interstellar Negotiation
Extraveganza
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interstellar Business
Interstellar Marketing
Interstellar Capitolism
~~~~~~~~~
Zero Gee Research
Genetic Mapping
Molecular Medicine
Transporters
~~~~~~~~~~
Weapons Theory
Phasers
Instantaneous Communication
1D Phasing
Large Scale Building
Artificial Satellites
Artificial Planets
Terror Star

~~~~~~~~~~
Stage 1

Military 100%, Expenditures 100%, Tax to morale about 80%.
As soon as 4-8 colony ships are build, equalize spending sliders. Adjust Expenditure Slider to stay in the black when necessary. Don't rush-build additional colony ships if needed, just go to 100% Military for a few turns.

Expand to a small number of nearby planets, keeping any majors far enough away to prevent early culture flipping. Stop expanding early!!
Build constructors to extend range.
Once Trade is researched choose a trading planet and build no more than 10 freighters. 6 may be more the mark. Send them to the closest planet.
Once Sensors are developed, build and deploy Sensor Drones.

I like to expand and explore in a grid, so I sent constructors out to fill this grid and I send sensor drones to explore in stripes from one side of the map to another -- no muss, no fuss. It may be faster to build only enough to explore clusters of stars, but I think that requires too much (many?) hands-on for this approach
The goal is actually to explore the existing planets and place starbases so that every remotely inhabitable planet is within range (4 or 5) of a terror star, so whatever floats.

Keep the AI's at war with each other and out of war with minors as much as possible through bribes. The build pattern above should allow ample cash for 100 turn trades of 15 -25 BC on a regular basis.

Stage 2

Set a Rally Point as near to the center of all opposing planets as possible. On most maps this will be around 13,13. Switch sensor drones to constructors when you have build enough to either pattern search or cluster search. Switch freighters to constructors when you have built 6-10. Set all planets to Rally Point 0.

Once stadiums are built, try to keep morale at 100%. You should be able to manage 100% morale, 100% expenditures, and peak at around 1000BC/mo with only 5 or 6 traders.

When the Terror Star is researched, turn research to 0% (you can research morale items like virus, depression if you like). When the social queue is complete set social spending to 0%.

As the constructors reach Rally Point 0, group them in stacks of 5 and send them to park near the *farthest* planets first. Park a stack next to each Major planet. I like to send several to minors as well, in the event the planets are taken over by majors.

Try to judge when you have built enough constructors and turn Expenditures to 0%.

Keep the AI's at war; above all keep them from allying with each other. Keep them at peace with the minors if possible so you need fewer Terror Stars.

Stage 3

Terror Star Alpha Strike at your convenience

Hope y'all find this interesting!
9,694 views 114 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top
Trading techs for morale boosting starbases can make those entertainment centres go a bit further.
shaffer - I got a lot of my money from other people trading with me. Look on the treaties screen and if you see two alien races trading with each other, that's when you need to start a war between them. With any luck, they'll start trading with you instead. You can also sell large batches of techs to generous minors. In my last game, I could have set my taxes at 0% and still made enough to get by.

Maybe I'll try researching straight to terror star in a Large galaxy next time - see how much that scores.

~SDC~
Reply #27 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxtipherous, Matthew
thanks to both of you. I shall come back after my next experience ;)
Star Control: Origins
Reply #28 from Stardock Forums Top
Nice job Maxtipherous. I said good-bye to the remaining majors with a 43 terror star salute to get my most recent 60k. It is hard to break some of my earlier habits so I researched extra trade routes for extra bc and the "be my pal" factor. :D

On the other hand, if one can wait until the end to unleash terror stars, there is no penalty having a bank account in the red.

I think this "works" because of the 60k cap, right? When I was playing maso huge, I played around with things to affect score (AI all evil, maximize tg/wonders/tech, big pop, etc.) and found I could get a 50k game to around 54 with not reproducable (by me) max of 56k.

My guess is that a military gigantic maso all incredible AI is going to cap out at 60k minimum. Anything "extra" that might get 61k to 70k is capped at 60k. Interestingly, I did see a gigantic maso alliance at 50k so the military victory is probably still necessary to reach the 60k cap. Thanks again for introducing one more way to play.
Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top
How long did yours take, Rick?

I just tried to do my own version of this technique on a Large map, skipping all the morale boosting research. Unhappiness didn't become too much of a problem. I was held back a bit by my inability to research Large Scale Building - I'll have to check for that patch - but I managed to trade for that in the end. The game took about an hour and a half, a bit more because of me colonising various planets (this time sinking as low as class 1) in an attempt to get my alignment up. Maybe I should give up on getting that happy Very Good face on my profile, and just use these instead:
The bad news is, it scored barely over 20K - half what I'd get for doing it 'properly'. I bet if you used the absoulte minimum tech tree and terror-starred the galaxy in the least possible number of turns, you could get a gigmaso with less than 60K.

~SDC~
Reply #30 from Stardock Forums Top
Max: I may have missed it above, but what are your preferences for planet frequency? I'm assuming that "rare" is the easiest, both because fewer TS are required and because the AI doesn't cope well with scarcity. Of course if there are more planets then *I* have more planets, and thus more sources of constructors.

Meanwhile, I have a couple of these games in progress.

-- Admiral Glacier
Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top
absolutely -- sorry I missed it. Rare is essential for speed games. Takes a little getting used to starting with 5-8 planets. haven't been successful with 2 or 3 yet.

(actually, I have speen too much of my free time posting on the greenie thread in the other forum *wink*)
[Message Edited]
Reply #32 from Stardock Forums Top
I just completed this technique on a small map, rare planets...oh boy. The easiest whoopass I ever handed out; just short of 30k for about 45 mins work. Unbelievable. Like ric, old habits die hard and I did build up some insurance in terms of influence wonders, trade routes etc but sheesh...this technique means you hardly have to turn up at the keyboard LOL . Hats off to ya, Maxti!
Reply #33 from Stardock Forums Top
Odd that you got 30K for a small galaxy and I got 20K for a large. I wonder if the population level plays a big part in score? I didn't bother keeping morale at 100, never researched stadium, so my growth rate would have been low.

~SDC~
Reply #34 from Stardock Forums Top
Matthew, you asked how long it took me but I don't play straight through. Usually I play an hour or two and do something else. In my one effort to use the Maxti strategy, it took 3 days of 1 or 2 hours each day. I have another game on my hard drive but haven't played since last week but maybe can play tomorrow or Wednesday. Sorry I don't keep track but when my wrists hurt (from too much keyboard time) I go read or watch some recorded TV or a movie. On the other hand, this is a heck of a lot faster than my previous gigantic games. :)
Reply #35 from Stardock Forums Top
Matthew - I always find it hard to tell what exactly is being rewarded in the "society" score component - I cant seem to repeat results consistently. In that game I built/traded for morale and pop boost wonders, trade goods etc and had the largest population prior to alpha striking. I have developed the opinion that massive pop and SPEED of victory are the keys, so I orient research and TG/wonder building that way. I do agree 20k seems poor reward for a large map, though!
Reply #36 from Stardock Forums Top
Um, there is no society score component. The metaverse score is kinda esoteric, bit is definitely not based on a sum of the scores displayed at the end of the game. I really wish they would clarify this, because it causes people to chase their tails.

Basically it is galaxy size, with modifiers for things like opponent AI, tech tree completion, percentage population, and victory condition. Turn off everything except military victory for max points.

They tweak these factors every release, but I think the order of significance is:

Galaxy Size
Victory condition (military is highest)
AI alignment (difference from yours)
Tech tree (insignificant)
Population Percentage (less than insignificant)

Cheers!
Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top
I'd agree that Society Score is meaningless. I've noticed that late game techs might get you 80-100 points and I've stopped chasing them. Sometimes I'm seen a boost from a high military rating, but I believe that you need to sustain a military advantage for a period of time to get it.

Perhaps that same holds true for Society, which would explain the reason it doesn't seem to effect score at Maso. With the huge bonuses the AI gets, there score are going to be as high or higher even if they cling to a few planets.

When I played at lower difficulties, I need notice a signficant bonus for winning the game quickly. As I got more interested in score, I realized that this boost seemed insignificant compared to winning in a longer time with a larger pop and more 'developed' civ - but perhaps this bonus would come back into play on a gigantic. (I would get around 7-8 K in the old scoring system for a quick win, but 4-5 K for medium game. Since I would get 10-11 K for a longer game that's what I played.) Hey- I never claimed to be good at cranking.

Interesting enough, I also use an alpha strike strategy a lot. I exploit the Draginol 'fix' to buy the AI fleet (including their starbases for range) over 100 turns. I then use the fleet against them to wipe them out... and I no longer have to pay. I actually got bored of this because it works with a frequency that means I didn't have to worry about winning - but if you see those days were I played multiple games in a day, that's what I was up to.

Maxtipherous - thanks for sharing this, I'll have to try it out.

-Cypher
Reply #38 from Stardock Forums Top
AI alignment (difference from yours)
End of quote


I know Brad said that this was a scoring component, but I haven't seen this make any difference.

Wonders built does seem to contribute to score.
[Message Edited]
Reply #39 from Stardock Forums Top
Perhaps that same holds true for Society, which would explain the reason it doesn't seem to effect score at Maso.
End of quote


Current thinking among leading players is that the Society, Economy, Research and Military scores you get at the end of the game are just there for your own amusement and are entirely irrelevant to metaverse points, which are calculated by a separate system, using the factors Maxtipherous mentions above (plus a penalty for taking too long).
Although that still doesn't explain my 20K - tech tree and population levels must be fairly significant.

~SDC~
Reply #40 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxti:

You mentioned that your original list omitted Organic Piecing as a pre-req for Genetic Mapping, but I think you also omitted three pre-reqs for Large Scale Building: High Density Metals, Tri-Strontium Alloy and Advanced Engineering. Usually I get to trade for a couple of those.

Settings: I was wondering what you use during a speed run. I assume that you turn off following autopilot and alien ships and showing AI ship battles, and likely you turn off anomaly popups, but how about "special imp done popup"? I also assume that you use auto turn and auto survey (and that USS Hero gets eaten by monsters due to that allergy to eggs).

[Man, I *hate* not knowing what is going on when I can't see my ships moving, and I hate hitting research anomalies when I have 1 turn left on a tech, but if speed is the thing, I suppose I have to. Yak. It's like pulling teeth to give up those things!]

I don't quite understand your description of your search pattern, but I love the inscription on the One Drone. -- HtL
Reply #41 from Stardock Forums Top
Interesting...I did realise that the game score is of course NOT the Metaverse score, but I did think they had SOME numerical relationship (ie the higher the game score, the higher the Meta score, at least) but I guess I'll have to revise even that view. Does anyone have any firm data on speed of victory at maso level as a scoring factor as opposed to total population (just keen on following up Cypher's point)?
Reply #42 from Stardock Forums Top
Large Scale Building: High Density Metals, Tri-Strontium Alloy and Advanced Engineering.
End of quote

yup -- I stopped posting corrections to my corrections hehe

I virtually always trade for large scale building.

well, I send the drones along one side. they each see a swath a given width. the first one is 8 squares from the side, or fifth from the first sector line. Then second from the nest line, then second on the other side of the next line, etc. You can do it really quick when you get the hang of it.

For what it's worth, here is the old formula on metaverse scoring:
Difficulty Level:
The base score is based on the intelligence of the various computer players. This makes up the vast majority of the score. There is a slight bonus for playing as the opposite alignment as most of the players for most of the game. It looks at each turn and then looks at how much you are different each turn. But it's a relatively small adustment.

Galaxy Size:
There is a moderate adjustment based on galaxy size. But not much. Gigantic galaxy vs. tiny will be about a 3 to 1 difference in scores if all variables are the same.

Population:
Population is looked at but its value decreases as the game progresses. It is Population P / Turns N ^2. You're actually better off having a pretty good population earlier than having a huge population later and sitting on it. You're not penalized for having long games though, you simply don't get additional points at a certain point. That said, population is a relatively minor part of the scoring. It also takes into account what percentage of the total galactic population you have that turn. That is, your score is then modified by 100% - your percent of the population. So if you have 90% of the galactic population, you're only going to get 10% of the population score that turn.

Technology:
What percentage of the technology tree you have acheived and how fast you get it are added in. A fairly modest bonus but it's still lookeda t.

Economics, Trade Goods, Wonders, etc.
These other things are looked at and a few points added. They won't make that big of a difference (on a 15,000 point score they may add a few hundred points total).

Victory Condition:
Then the victory condition is looked at. The score is multiplied by it. Conquest = 10. Alliance =9. Culture = 8. Technology Victory = 7 (bear in mind that this is partially made up for by having a higher percent of the tech tree completed bonus).

Notes:
You're best scoring scenario is to win but not win too quickly. The system is designed to appeal to the mass majority of players, not the top 10 players. As a result, we want to create a system that rewards people for playing the game as it was designed to be played. That means your best bang for the buck will be games that are medium in length. You get serious diminishing returns. Sitting on 90% of the galaxy for turn after turn is not going to net you more points. You're not penalized either but you're not rewarded for having a huge population if you've got the game wrapped up. On the other hand, win the game in say year 3 due to some specific strategy won't net very good scores because you haven't had time to build up other parts to get multiplied by.
Reply #43 from Stardock Forums Top
I did think they had SOME numerical relationship
End of quote


As far as I can tell, your (non-metaverse-point) Military and Research scores can be deduced from the graphs - if the area under your line on the research graph is higher than that of an AI, then you will have a higher research score than that AI. So if you build a big military early and hold on to it for a long time, then you will get a better military score. Research score is purely based on the amount of research done on your planets - trading for techs and Unknown Anomaly research boosts will not give you anything. Using this knowledge, I played a few games keeping these scores high, before concluding that it wasn't doing my metaverse score any good at all.

My current variation on the Lightning Alpha Strike technique is to ignore it during the interesting early game and just play however I feel is appropriate for the map; colonising what I can, building key trade goods, getting into debt early on and paying it off when freighters arrive at my planets. When I get into a secure position, I research to Terror Stars and go for a quick finish before I get bored.

Incidentally, it seems a little quicker on the big maps to have two or more Rally Points for your constructors, spread out so they can get to the furthest stars quicker.

~SDC~
Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top
I think I'm taking this off topic, because in Lightning Alpha Strategy military is inrelevant.

I know for a fact that maintaining a decent military is worth 5-10% of your score on maso. I'm played over 30 maso games and for the last 20 plus it's the only thing I'll vary.... building up in the end game doesn't seem to help.

I always kill off three majors right away, kill one as I'm building, and then culture flip the remaining AI. The only other variable is how long I let the minors life... I will rush kill them if they're in danger of being conquered or flipped. Otherwise I'll wait to flip the Alexians and once in a while, I'll let the Caranoids live as a trade partner.

Cypher
Reply #45 from Stardock Forums Top
My current variation on the Lightning Alpha Strike technique is to ignore it during the interesting early game and just play however I feel is appropriate for the map; colonising what I can, building key trade goods, getting into debt early on and paying it off when freighters arrive at my planets. When I get into a secure position, I research to Terror Stars and go for a quick finish before I get bored.
End of quote


M.D.: That makes perfect sense. The opening is often the most interesting part (and most critical for micro-managing). Even at maso, by mid-game the issue is often no longer in doubt (sometimes disaster, but no longer in doubt!) -- HtL
Reply #46 from Stardock Forums Top
I played a few games keeping these scores high, before concluding that it wasn't doing my metaverse score any good at all.
End of quote

hehe I did exactly the same thing
I know for a fact that maintaining a decent military is worth 5-10% of your score on maso
End of quote

I doubt it. There may be a correlation between the military buildup and your percentage of the overall population, which has a noticeable effect on smaller maps and quicker games.

I tried testing the military points concept by saving a game and finishing it, then replaying it building dozens of excaliburs before the end. It changed my military score quite a bit, but made no difference in Metaverse scores. Not a good test, granted.
Reply #47 from Stardock Forums Top
just reporting in . . .

got a 60k game in 5 hours of computer time but I take breaks every 1 or 2 hours so this was cumulative time over 2 days. It took about 1 hour to complete coloniziation (game year 2181). After 3 and a half hours, I completed social and tech and shifted to constructors (about 2193 game year). Around 5 hours we have the big boom and a military victory (2201 game year).

I have had 4 planets, 5 planets, & 6 planets over 3 games and they all work fine. All the games end around 2201. I probably goof off a little because I really like early and numerous trade routes for financial security. This is especially true if the Alexians are not available to trade with. I also trade a lot and maybe that could be trimmed back. Old habbits change slowly. LOL.

This is fun new way to play the game so thank you Maxtipherous. :)
Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm...hit a snag. I decided to try one of these on small maso, expecting that to go quickly (compared to gigantic and by my standards, of course!) The problem I'm having is that I have to spend a lot of time in the diplo screens trying to keep the aliens from declaring war on me. I was stumbling happily along when all of a sudden the Torians said (to paraphrase): "You're evil; prepare to die." Yikes! (And by the way, my morality shows as Neutral/47, which sure isn't EVIL.) At that point I had *no* warships and a military rating of SEVEN and had about the chance of a Fiat in front of a runaway Abrams Tank. So I reloaded from the Previous Auto-Save where the Torians were merely "cool" and tried to avert disaster. They rarely respond to gifts of tech or of 500+bc, and when they do they move up from Wary to Cool, and occasionally to neutral. I have to give gifts about every three turns. Meanwhile, I built a flock of battle cruisers and battle axes to bring my military rating into the middle of the pack, and that seems to help a little (while delaying my progress).

And no, I didn't make the mistake of putting a warship on "guard" on one of my starbases, thus triggering a war. At the time they declared I didn't have ANY warships at all, just Hero and a scout.

Maxti: are you finding you can do this without military? -- HtL
Reply #49 from Stardock Forums Top
sub 50 is evil, my dastardly friend hehe

100% without military. This is my theory about AI's declaring war.

An AI will declare war on you if 1) it doesn't really like you and 2) it's current military/economic complex is substantially greater than the sum of your military/economic complex and the military/economic complexes of all the races it is currently at war with. A further corollary is that relations tend not to deteriorate if the opposite is true.

So I bribe constantly to keep the AI's at war with relative equals, or keep the top dog at war with everybody. a 20-30BC bribe over 100 years works out better the 500c every 3 or 4 turns.

as a side note I tried playing this style choosing research and production bonuses rather than my standard morale and economy, and the bribes required increased by something like 50%.

Interesting study of game mechanics, isn't it. Fascinating simulation.

Cheers!
Reply #50 from Stardock Forums Top
are you finding you can do this without military?
End of quote


Staying out of wars tends to be easier on larger maps.


~SDC~