Windows 8 = EPIC FAIL » Forum Post by kona0197

Quoting starkers,

nope, never directly said anything demeaning/derogatory to anyone.

Only because you are well aware of the site rules regarding that. On far more than one occasion, you have referred to those who disagree with your opinion a bunch of uneducated, inexperienced, mis-informed whining blind sheep. Now we are moronic as well.

THAT shoe doesn't fit me or many of the well informed long time Windows users who populate these forums. I value almost all opinions but yours has become very biased and insulting.

Now we're done.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting Jafo,

reply 94

starkers....spend the time and watch the link in #84.

Seen it before... the bloke is a complete wanker. Unusable my arse! I've been using Win 8 for 10 months and can do everything that I did on Win 7.

I'm out of here... the whining never stops.

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

Some might say that Microsoft shoots itself in the foot by having a new operating system follow so close on the heels of the previous one.

The cost of upgrading might merit a bit of a shrug, but the thing that you can count on is that MS will have another operating system out in a few years, so if you're a late adopter of W7 like me, why trouble yourself with W8 when you can just wait for W9?

There is a good reason for having very similar operating systems released so close together on the timeline. Change isn't always welcomed, so when you break it up into smaller steps and gradually steer towards a particular result, it isn't as scary for the end users. Also, you get money for selling each version of the operating system which helps to pay for developing the next version. If one version isn't as popular, well that's unfortunate but a necessary part of the evolution of the operating system.

With that said, it is quite clear that people are more interested by new and ground-breaking products. So, while Windows 8 might be a change too far for some users, at the very least you can see that MS is not quite so afraid to experiment with changing things. It means that Windows 9 (whenever it is released) will probably look a lot different to Windows 8 but, as with Windows 7, it will retain the features and improvements introduced by its predecessor and add a few of its own.

Unless MS goes completely off the rails and releases W8-2. Then the heavens will split open and molten lava will spew from the earth, and the whole world will scream 'WHY!' for a brief moment before a fiery meteorites smashes into it and waves of zombies eat everyone's brains.

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+222

Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 99

Pardon me for calling bullshit on that one........

That's just it. It is more secure than any previous MS OS (as it well should be). It has better and more secure memory management, better power management and better DEP. All detailed in that article I linked to in several threads already which never got a response. None of that may interest you in the least and the GUI (as has been pointed out to me many times now) may be the most important thing to folks around here. I can respect that and don't seek to change anyone's mind on that. I do however seek the same respect for my position. That being the 'under-the-hood' advancements in Windows 8 are very much real and important to me.

Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 99

Add to that the fact that not everyone can afford to build a rig such as yours which based on specs alone, would be faster than most even with XP for an OS. Giving MS the credit for your setup being fast is utterly ridiculous. With a SSD and my well outdated Phenom 9850BE/8GBs DDR2, my rig is still a very solid performer. I don't need thousands of dollars worth of new hardware.....yet and certainly not just to get the most out of the newest operating system.

Unlike starkers who is running Windows 8 on a fairly awesome machine, I on the other hand have installed it on the least capable of my machines (from a hardware perspective) which has served to highlight exactly how much better the latest OS offering from MS actually is. The system I chose for this 'experiment' was my 2005 DELL Inspiron 6000 (detailed in another thread) which shipped with XP Pro, was reformatted to Windows Vista Business, then Windows 7 Pro, and finally Windows 8 Pro. That system has been used over the years for the same day-in-day-out tasks. It still is and under Windows 8 it is enjoying the best performance it has ever had. Same hardware from 2005, new OS. Best yet performance. To me anyway, that says something.

Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 99

IMHO, UI or no UI, there isn't/wasn't $40 worth of 'better' in Windows 8 over Windows 7 so I kept what I have and like.

Again. Hyper-V out of the box, Windows to go, App and IE tab sandboxing, the better power and memory management to name a few may not be worth the $40 to you. I can respect that. Can you respect that it is well worth the $40 for me to have my oldest machine running better than it ever has?

Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 99

This post was made from an XP box that has NO AV. Sempron 3100+ @1.8 GHz, 1.5 GBs RAM, nVidia FX5200 gfx and was built out of parts from a $20 yardsale eMachine. It has never had a BSOD or a security breach since I put it together, it must be the OS.

This post was made using a:

Dell Inspiron 6000

1.6Ghz Intel Pentium M centrino (533MHz FSB)

2 GB 533Mhz DDR2 RAM

128 MB ATI Mobility X300 video chip

160GB 5400rpm HD (the only thing changed since 2005 - went from an 80GB 5400rpm to this one)

running Windows 8

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linux still sucks. do ya know why? i don't use it therefore it must suck. ios sucks, too. so does osx, android, chrome os and all other operating systems i don't use.

that's pretty much the gist of this thread, along with the other win 8 and wp8 bashing threads. those of us who do use and like win8 and/or wp8 must be idiots.

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Philly0381

Join Date 11/2004

+844

Nope, the only idiots are folks like myself clicking on this thread to read it.

Life is so boring when you get old you reach out to anything that you thing might add a little spark to it.

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DaveRI

Join Date 09/2003

+472

Guys they're just operating systems. If it runs on your box and runs what you want to run and gets the job done, all is good.

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Quoting the_Monk,

reply 104

Can you respect that it is well worth the $40 for me to have my oldest machine running better than it ever has?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I can. While most of the under the hood improvements you mention mean very little to me, I have no doubt that they are significant improvements to some who depend on them. For my money though, the biggest single improvement I have found that you can add to ANY rig would have to be an SSD. Forget a new OS, forget more RAM, forget a bigger HDD. Go solid state and don't look back! Thanks for the only objective, rational pro-Win8 reply so far. That I certainly respect.

Quoting MadDeez,

reply 105

those of us who do use and like win8 and/or wp8 must be idiots.

No, not at all. Your likes and or needs can and often will be different than others. That doesn't make you an idiot but it also doesn't make those that disagree with you morons, uneducated, dinosaurs or sheep. If that is all you have to contribute, however, I see little added knowledge fron your participation. So as starkers has said....if the shoe fits.

If it trips your trigger, fine. If the improvements/changes mean something to you, great. If you feel like you got your money's worth...wonderful. However, if you don't like all the bad press, poor reactions from the buying public at large and comments and opinions of those who think it is just plain poor design choice, much ado about nothing, or see no need to replace a perfectly fine OS, which Win 7 is....GET OVER IT.

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Drats! Double posted.

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Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 109

However, if you don't like all the bad press, poor reactions from the buying public at large and comments and opinions of those who think it is just plain poor design choice, much ado about nothing, or see no need to replace a perfectly fine OS, which Win 7 is....GET OVER IT.

I think we need to take a step back here...this thread was pretty civil until a poor bloke posted that he didn't like W8 because you couldn't have multiple programs open at once...

I (and others) civilly corrected him...he wasn't here to antagonize, he simply stated what he legitimately thought was true (and if it was, well it would be a damn good criticism of W8)...

His comment got some (including myself) to state that W8 has suffered from fallacious or misleading critics...when someone says they don't want W8 because of a misunderstood "fact", that is a clear sign that actual deficiencies of W8 are not the only problems hindering its sales....multiple critics of W8 have used false or misleading claims to cast down W8 for a very long period of time...

So, when someone says that much criticism in regards to W8 is unfounded, it isn't a case of arrogance or looking down on others opinions, it's a case of distinguishing fact from fiction....

Now, it is true that some of the criticism for W8 is justified...some people have really tried the start screen, have actually taken the time to learn W8, and still prefer the start menu....I've heard very good, solid reasons such as the inability to view an open file and the start screen simultaneously on one screen, or the inability to easily determine if an app is still running or not....the sluggishness and inefficiency of the task manager has also been brought up (and rightly so)...

Instead of throwing feces at each other, I think some history on how this thread evolved is important...the W8 advocates did not start out slamming "critics" simply because they were critics, they started out correcting misconceptions in regards to the OS...it doesn't automatically mean all criticism is void, but it certainly doesn't make W8 advocates asshats for recognizing a core reason for W8's failure that has nothing to do with the functionality of the OS or GUI..

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RedneckDude

Join Date 04/2009

+2223

Quoting Wizard1956,

reply 109

No, not at all. Your likes and or needs can and often will be different than others. That doesn't make you an idiot but it also doesn't make those that disagree with you or others that may like Win8 (all four of you) morons, uneducated, dinosaurs or sheep.

Amen.

I have Windows 8. I don't hate it. I also don't love it. I "play" with it only because I got it for $14.99...it's almost worth that amount.

I have a very speedy system sporting two EVGA GTX 650 gfx cards, 4 monitors, 16 GB of DDR3 ram, a 6 core CPU, and a fairly good mobo sporting 2 SSDs. Windows 8 performs only slightly better for me than does 7. But without Stardock apps, I find 8 to be butt ugly and convoluted, unintuitive, and definitely NOT better than 7 overall. In a dual boot situation, 8 causes an extra reboot to switch between OSes (which kinda negates the fast boot of an SSD).

I read about Windows 8 being more secure. I haven't been suffering any security problems with 7.

I seldom have problems with 7 that are due to the OS itself. I can't say that about 8. I do see some small improvements with 8, like the ability to optimize an SSD natively, and native ISO support, and even multi monitor support. But nothing that'll make me give up 7 by any stretch of the imagination. Also, in my experience, 8 NEEDS several 3rd party apps to make it tolerable to use.

I will be using Windows 7 for a long time to come. That's my choice.

That said, I have, and will, avoid this thread simply because of the fact that I am not a moron, sheep, idiot, or any other label you might put on a person/group. I reserve that label for the multitude of those who haven't used/tried 8 and are simply repeating things they've read or heard.

I get so tired of the kind of thread when this kind of attitude takes over. "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're an idiot for not seeing it."

We are all different, with differing needs, likes, hates. peeves, opinions, etc...

Peace..out.

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Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 110

So, when someone says that much criticism in regards to W8 is unfounded, it isn't a case of arrogance or looking down on others opinions, it's a case of distinguishing fact from fiction....

I take it then that the 'fact' is criticism of 8 is unfounded.

Good, as long as we're clear on that.

So, when 8.1 is released...with a remergence of a 'traditional' start button interface - indicating MS has understood 'evolutionary' works and 'revolutionary' clearly does not - they do so because the criticism is unfounded.

The very real popularity of Start8 is purely accidental and coincidental and has exactly nothing to do with the truth that criticism of 8 is unfounded.

It is not whether an OS Kernel is solid or bullet proof that makes it a success [though it does help]....it's POPULAR OPINION that does that.

It's called a 'concensus'.

Microsoft has now discovered...if you mess with the mechanics of an interface and impose change you can and will alienate your user.

Let's leave all the chest-beating until 8.1 /blue /whatever is released.

If it's more of the same...Metro-not-Window ...then fine. It's phone interface uber alles.

If it's a half-baked return to 'normal' historical Window interface then it's clearly a case of Microsoft NOT herding the 'sheep' quite so forcefully.

If there's also been some shuffling of MS GUI dev team personnel that's obviously coincidental and has nothing to do with sheep herding.

This intention to fast-track updates to the OS should have been handles entirely differently. 8 should have been a new kernel version of 7 with the odd cosmetic reference to phone interfacing...and on each successive point release it SLOWLY TRANSITIONED to the pure bull-shit version it currently is....giving people enough time to see the changes as EVOLUTIONARY .... and not stupefy them into disgust.

NONE of this is about looks/appearance/how pretty. It is meaningless whether there is transparency or not...or any such BLING. It is ENTIRELY about the human-to-computer/OS interaction - and it is entirely undeniable MS GOT THAT WRONG .... particularly in methodology of introduction.

Yes, I know. An intelligent person can 'work it out' and even get 8 to behave almost as acceptably as 7. If one spends long enough 8 is nothing more than a 'new language' when it comes to GUI interaction...and anyone can learn a new language.... so that's not an issue at all.

...unless you realise Microsoft has been teaching you one language FOR DECADES ...and even the less-than-intelligent can manage to grunt passably in it....but then said 'no....we're gonna learn you a new one - because it's understood in other countries you aren't interested in visiting'.

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 112

I take it then that the 'fact' is criticism of 8 is unfounded.

No, that is not what I said....I will quote my (unedited) statement...

Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 110

when someone says that much criticism in regards to W8 is unfounded, it isn't a case of arrogance or looking down on others opinions, it's a case of distinguishing fact from fiction....

I did not say all criticism, and I even acknowledged very specific and well justified criticisms...

I have multiple times reiterated the same stance, that some criticism of W8 is very well justified or a respectable difference of opinion....I have also stated multiple times that some or much or many criticism(s) of W8 are not justified because they are based on misconceptions (can't have multiple programs open, can't have desktop shortcuts, have to have touch screen, etc.)...

I would appreciate if you do not change or twist what I am saying....

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Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 113

I did not say all criticism

I didn't say 'all' either.

Nothing was 'changed or twisted'.

Perhaps you need to not 'change or twist'.... Spell checker

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4199

Not directing this to anyone specific, but I read and re-read Jafo's statement. He didn't say, nor did he imply "all", so let it go.

Sheesh, guys. It's really only an OS with a crappy GUI... not the nuclear codes, a cure for cancer, peace in the middle east nor the second coming.

Do we all really need to get so heated about it all?

MS/Apple/Google, et. al. couldn't care less what we're saying, nor fighting about. Nothing here is anywhere close to be worth harming the spirit of this community to which we all belong. No one's going to convince anyone of anything, really. Right?

So ease up, please. No one's feelings are worth any of this fraking nonsense. When you learn you've hurt someone, you don't feel good about it, do you?

Sometimes Being a friend is more important than being "right".

"I've learned that people will forget what you said,

people will forget what you did,

but people will never forget how you made them feel."

- Maya Angelou

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Quoting Jafo,

reply 112

I take it then that the 'fact' is criticism of 8 is unfounded.

This is an unambiguous statement with no conditional...it implies any and all criticism is wrongheaded and follows the whole "anyone who criticizes W8 just [insert favorite insult here]"...I certainly would agree with Jafo (and others) that there is a clear problem with that stance....

Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 110

when someone says that much criticism in regards to W8 is unfounded

This statement has a conditional...it indicates that some (with a bias towards most) criticism is unfounded, and therefore acknowledges not all criticism is a problem....there is a huge difference between what I'm saying and what Jafo is interpreting....

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Quoting Seleuceia,

reply 116

implies

Oh, let's all dive into semantics, shall we?

implies...infers...could mean...might be...am guessing....perhaps.....

If you spend your life reading between the lines you will miss life's story.

It is clear you have no idea as to what I am or am not 'interpreting'...

...simply because you have clearly missed the point due to your slip between the lines...

What's that sayin.... "When you assume...."?

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Jafo, worry about game balance, then post about win8 balancing.

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you ppl make se sick they have made some very EPIC innovations with windows 8 and just because a MINORITY dont like it because its not plain anf boring you slag it off.

HOW ABOUT THIS _ DONT FUCKING BUY IT!!! - IF YOU DONT FUCKING LIKE IT DONT JUST SLAG IT OFF!!!!!!

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FractalFragger.... there is nothing 'epic' about Windows 8. In fact I doubt anyone who has responded to this thread considers 8 to be at all 'epic', other than the OP's title reference to its degree of 'fail'.

All that aside I'd suggest you temper your future responses/contributions, particularly if you wish to continue to interact on these forums for a second 10 minutes...

Yes, I'm vocal about 8's failings...or rather MS's poor choice of 'direction', however I DID resubscribe to Technet just so I could continue to assess the Windows OS both now and in the future...and on more than one 'system'.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4199

I believe that W8 has good points (security, speed) and less good ones (GUI and the whole tiles business, multi program usage and unnecessarily obtuse navigation) the latter being well suited to tablet/phone systems (provided you have little finger oil and no abrasives on your skin). W8 is not well suited to desktop systems, and I don't think the desktop is obsolete. If speed is the major need, certainly most would be satisfied with SSD's.

Therefore, "Blue" is coming... suggesting MS sees the need to actually consider customer desires.

This is a customization site. The severe limitations put on customization, and a decade-plus of art have garnered it some fans here... but even the majority of them only with the help of Stardock's products and the hope we all have for Windowblinds 8 (and more Stardock programs in the future).

+1

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RedneckDude

Join Date 04/2009

+2223

Quoting DrJBHL,

reply 121

"Blue" is coming... suggesting MS sees the need to actually consider customer desires.

More like "Blue" is coming... suggesting MS sees the need to actually garner more customer money.

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Quoting FractalFragger,

reply 119

because its not plain anf boring

You're kidding, right? First of all, it is far more than a minority and secondly, Win8 is the epitome of plain, dull and boring.

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DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002

+4199

Quoting RedneckDude,

reply 122

Quoting DrJBHL, reply 121"Blue" is coming... suggesting MS sees the need to actually consider customer desires.

More like "Blue" is coming... suggesting MS sees the need to actually garner more customer money.

Oddly enough... if customer needs and desires are satisfied, sales seem to increase.

Who knew?

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the_Monk

Join Date 01/2008

+222

I really am trying to remain respectful towards this community/thread. I'll admit of course that the thread TITLE certainly got my hackles up (but then I'm sure kona knew exactly what he was doing!) and my initial posts to this thread may have been in kind however I believe that I have subsequently posted valid if opposing viewpoints and it seems the community (save one or two like Wizard) just ignore those valid points and carry on for........the sake of carrying on.

I have now repeatedly stated that (yes Jafo, Redneck and others.....) I know I am in the 'skinning' part of the universe where people who focus on the look/feel of things like to congregate to share ideas in how to change the look/feel of GUI's. I absolutely get that and can respect that. I have not and will not now expect to change anyone's mind on that and whether or not I happen to like the GUI of any particular OS is a moot point to this discussion.

I have now also repeatedly stated that while there are certain positives to Windows 8 that may only be of benefit at the enterprise level (windows to go, hyper-v, etc. etc.) the other positives/advancements such as much better/smarter memory management, better power management, more robust internal OS security and the fact that Windows 8 runs so much better on older hardware it is painfully obvious are all things one can expect the average end-user might be interested in. I have provided a thread in which I detailed my experience taking a notebook from 2005, which had shipped with XP Pro and over the years of same task-use was reformatted to Vista Business, Windows 7 Pro and now Windows 8 Pro and have discovered that this latest OS utilizes the old hardware from 2005 more efficiently which manifests as a pretty obvious performance increase. No SSD's, no other hardware improvements done to that old notebook (not even fan replacement) except an increase in HD size which happened during the notebook's Windows 7 reformat.

The fact that no one appears to really care about those 'benefits', points out to me in no uncertain terms that this really is just about people here hating the look/feel of the new OS's GUI so much they are not only willing to overlook any real benefit to the new OS, they are actively ignoring same. That is just sad.

On one hand you have posters suggesting that not everyone can afford to have rigs like starkers, and besides giving the credit to MS for a 'better/faster OS' with components such as in starkers' machine running the OS is not appropriate. True, but then you have posters suggesting hey with an SSD etc. look how the older OS flies.......meanwhile giving the older OS's the same sort of 'credit'....

We don't want to spend $40 to get better overall OS performance (among other things) but we'll spend $100's on SSD's (yes I understand an SSD doesn't just speed up the OS)?

As I've also stated before, while I'm sure the older hardware market segment was/is not MS's target market I have done extensive testing (besides my old notebook) and the new OS consistently outperforms older OS's on aging hardware to the point where if a client wants to get the most out of older hardware I have no problem suggesting Win8 before some other more costly hardware upgrades.

I think after repeating myself yet again, I may have to bow out of this thread to keep my blood-pressure at a healthier level.

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