Hey Greg, sorry if you said this already but do you want to be in the second game? Anyone else who wants to play and isn't on the list please post.

People were thinking of ways to make the game more fair since it was originally going to be a 4v6, and one of the ideas was for all the pros to start as Advent and pick a revelation as the starting cap. None of those ideas ended up happening but Auqia was a good sport and did it anyways.

In the second game I just put up he went double Halcyon and a Progen.

We get out kicks out of different things than the pros do. The real truth is that we have a blast even if we lose. I do anyways.

The 'other game' is a 1 vs 3 though?  What could possibly be interesting about it?  I hadn't much to say about the pro team because they weren't really trying, as your team weren't good enough to stop mass LRF.  I dont want to be too critical, its an excellent idea to have organised games, the ICO community has done itself few favours with its persistent failure to support the game and help the developers.  Tyr posted a few replays and Star organised a single small tournament a while back, but these sort of initiatives have been few and far between.  Regular Saturday or Sunday night games with pre-announced teams or singles matches and posted replays would be a huge improvement.  The modders deserve some respect for being willing to have their replays posted up for all to see.

However I doubt that a second 4s or 5s would be any more useful in this case as the pros are far too good for you. This became obvious about thirty minutes into the game, when you should have resigned, saving 45 mins of gaming time.  This is where the pro players were really nice about the game, it would not be the same in a normal ICO game, where you would also get kicked from 5s afterwards for being crap and not resigning.  Its not as if this was necessarily going to happen either, as you were somewhat of an unknown quantity.  A 'modders' team comprised of the likes of Zombies, Sel, Darvin and Whip might have been a much tougher test for the pros- and if ICO is to be represented by their best, why not have the best modders as well?  But if you stick to the current lineup a 'modders' vs 'nobodies' game might be more competitive- and fun?  Or why not have a modders vs modders game to establish the best players?

Some further points on the original game:

-Mech really had a sweet spot with an easy ice, a couple of neutral extractors right next to him, then another roid leading into the desert and a final volcanic for a huge trade route.  However he opted to colonise his roid with his cap, and didn't use the 'skilled' method until he hit the desert, by which time he already had four planets.  It seems possible that under any sort of pressure he would have taken the roid with a colony frigates and the ice with a turret. This would have cost him a further colony frigate and two turrets, and he would have missed a free extractor from his colony capital- which is almost 1200 credits plus resources very early in the game.  So it should be clear that less skilled players suffer heavily from an enlarged map.

-Auqia was obviously cheating, the point of starting with a Revelation is lost if you make up for it by producing a second cap straight away.  He moved the Revelation around as a sort of super-scout, while Star pretended to instruct him on its usefulness, presumably for the benefit of anyone watching the replay.  Had it been the only cap he had it would have been far less useful, as it would just have had to flee without ever being able to use its abilities.  It really is a rubbish ship, like you might imagine a siege capital without any siege abilities until its ultimate would be.  Even its ultimate is still shite.  Star was 'teaching' Auqia that Reverie was like Ion Bolt but for longer while leaving the target invulnerable, or it would be overpowered.  Well Auqia the ultimate is like the Vasari colony cap ultimate, except you get no resources from it...  The ultimate should oneshot planets, to make up for the lack of any siege ability otherwise.  It is channelled, after all, and takes a long time to use.

-When How was attacking Krdax 's starbase, it reminded me of the AI attacking starbases, as How used his Egg to tank for his LRF, though obviously How isn't too stupid to remove his capital before it gets seriously damaged.  Perhaps just teaching the AI to withdraw its capitals when damaged would go a long way to solving the starbase problem?

Again though, it is good just to have some sort of organised game, of almost any quality.  Perhaps a small 4s tournament would be good.  I'm not against team games per se, though I would expect that 1s should be the most important for balance, but I am against the pug 5s on random maps that have done so much harm to the game.  A Saturday or Sunday night 3s or 4s league running over a few weeks could be huge in terms to game development.  Its a pity that the clans that we have are so much about guessing each others smurfs and haven't taken any part in helping to structure the game.  Every other RTS out there has decent matchmaking, a ladder of some sort, a limited and evolving map pool and the odd tournament.  Sins could use all of those.  What the game cant provide for the moment could easily be made up by the players, if they made the effort.  Also the devs could help with a few hints on what they intend to do to multiplayer with Rebellion....    

Hey All

I watched the replay.

Any reason why this game was not played using a mod, which the modders would be more familiar with?

I suggest 4v6 on the next game and if pros win try 3v7

I play 1 or 2 games a week. Sometimes comp stomps when Im doing other things so I dont have to concentrate so hard. Lots of new players lately. Must be due to steam.

You're missing the point. These matches are just a sort of community fun thing, and to encourage some modders like myself, and maybe some of the people who play our mods (as until recently the number of ICO players was barely a speck of mod players) who would otherwise never play on ICO.

The second game was in a sense just to see if some of the boasts that a single pro could take on two or three "noobs held true", and because there were no other games going on. Also I think we all played better on that one, and not just because we somehow won at the end.

Going with the Revelation was not something agreed on, just something suggested before the game. He didn't have to build a Revelation at all.

Is Darvin actually a modder? He's discussed them a bit, especially the balance mod we tried to make, but I've never seen him actually release one. ZombieRus and Seleucia are aware of this thread but haven't been able to play for various reasons. Whose is whip? I feel like I remember him from somewhere...

Nice to see you again JJ. I hope after we finally get a 4v6 game some ICO regulars will be willing to try a mod game. Problem is I don't think a lot of modders necessarily play each others mods (I haven't played 7DS or Distant Stars in their current forms), so I think it would be more amusing to have a modder whose not playing get a mod no one has (to his knowledge) played before, so all the players are in a sense having to learn as they go.

Yup, that's what will hopefully happen, if we can even get six modders before saturday. I know this will seal our doom, but are you interested in joining the fun.

Last game was fun in SM kind of way, so count me in for next one.

Well, it showed you guys knew how to win in a 3v1 in random medium.

Then again, that's often to basically spam units and send them towards the enemy, overwhelming them with numbers...

Whip is DirtySanchezz. I don't think he's a modder though, nor is Darvin...?

I have company in this week, so JJ can take my spot (or anyone else).

Because people asked for the replays, and if getting some more attention to ICO is a goal, for promoting it, even if non ICO pros getting utterly owned may not be the best way to do that. If you don't find watching these things fun (and since you seem to like things from a purely strategic view), don't watch them.

As much as that would help us, the vast majority of people know him as a pro, so if everyone shows up I think he'll have to stick with the pro team, no matter how much he could use another loss on his main.

How could he be cheating if there were no rules?

That is true, if Darvin did want to play we'd certainly take him. Though since maps can be made with the galaxy forge without any really modding knowledge outside of this I might not say so, depending if he did anything except advise Seleucia.

Some people do play this game for things besides gameplay, even though I realize you don't. Many including me can have quite a good time just watching the space battles, in which case mods for every Sci-fi series ever and graphics mods are quite important. Though many of these mods also create their own mechanics, something as simple to reworked pirates or culture to a respawning super capitalship in Zombies mod.

Ironclad has sadly made the AI almost untouchable by modders (Dawn of Victory, a mod you may approve of, has changed so many mechanics that the AI no longer knows how to do much of anything), and few people care about Diplomacy enough to justify what limited things we could do to it (since its mostly an AI problem still). Being a good modder with this game is largely being extremely creative in how you use what limited resources you have.

I never said it was an achievement to be proud of, and honestly I don't care enough to spend much time practicing on moving my units in such a way so that the pathfinding is less horrible. Though maybe I'll get better at it if I do too many more of these despite myself...

Well you have a released mod to your credit (even if unfinished), so I think that more than qualifies you. If you want in on this game just say the word. I think we'll try for 7:00 PM EST on Saturday again, unless there is some other time that works for most people, but as Sparda is on pacific time and Mecha is in Europe we don't have a lot of hours that work for everyone.

It's not that I can't take advantage of "questionable" elements...it's just that I prefer playing with a modded version...

I don't like the idea that of all ships, scout frigates are the most essential to expansion...I mean, sure it clearly works and is viable to any player...but I think it is sort of silly...then there are the marginalized elements like culture, many civ technologies, and certain support ships...

I like playing a game where I can open with any capital ship, build refineries as much as trade ports, or play as any faction without gimping myself...