Dawn of Dominions is *NOT* balanced, especially without the full set of expected nations.  I would not suggest it for this game.

Either of the two I suggested would work.  One being a bit smaller, but with balanced starting locations (made for another 8 player game), the other being a bit larger, but again, with what should be reasonable starting locations.

I don't see much reason to continue with this one unless Elana and ghostwes want to continue it., starting that close is just crazy.

Otherwise you guys didn't break any rules, hell we didn't make any rules about anything did we?  Communication is good, my earlier comment was just a warning, that in some cases you don't want to give out that information, especially to Niefel...   Because Neifel can rush a Jarl by turn 4 to your capitol and you'll be hard pressed to do anything about it.  Sure, you might be safe in the fortress, but your game is essentially over at that point.

Not that Elana was going to do that... (I assume)

As an aside, even with a restart my ask for air/earth gems still stands, and my PMs to anyone still stand

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about you in this game, just used Niefel as a likely rush nation, there are others (though not too bad in this line up).

I checked both the maps I suggested, and they are fine.

Stream Lands has a couple starts with only 3 between them, but most are 4, and the 3 only if you know where you are going

Land of Legends has mostly 5 or 6 with a couple at 4, but someone would have to fix the starts a bit, because some of us will get stuck on the edge, and thus have only 2 neighbors in some cases, which is not good for balance reasons.  Even fixing the starts a bit shouldn't force anything closer than 4, but someone besides me should do it, since I'm in the game

Also of note is that SL is wrap around and LoL is not.  For those who care about that.  LoL has everyone starting on the outside ring anyway, so you will have 2 neighbors, plus potentially anyone who's quick to go into the center island.  But quick isn't for the first 10 turns probably...

There is also The Desert Eye, which is a default map giving us 13.5 land provinces per player, and likely reasonable starts.

So anyway, I think we are going to scrap this current game and restart on a new map.  Unless I hear anything to the contrary by tomorrow morning, I will take care of it with whatever map people agree on.  Or, we can have wonderloss fix the existing map, but it's still a restart.

I'm pro a new map and perhaps if the patch is out we could also patch up?

My apologies for the map issues. I took on a task that was beyond my current skill and knowledge level. Sorry for the delays and restarts.

No apology needed, Wonderloss. In any case, it seems nobody minds restarting the game.

wonderloss:  no apology needed, you volunteered to help us.  For that I am grateful.  And we all have learned from this. 

i am for a new map, somewhat bigger; but i can play on this one too

Ahh, so it will

So now the question is, which map?

Do you have time/interest to relook at the starts on this one wonderloss?

Then you'd have to send up the .map file.

Otherwise it will take me til tonight to get to putting in a new map.

From what I have learned, I would rather not try to do starts again. There are a lot of details involved of which I was not aware. It would probably be better to go with a premade map.

Ok, land of legends or Plane of Rusty nails.

Can someone other than me check the starting locations in the fixed versions floating around the llama map browser?

Otherwise just vote on wrap around or not, I don't  care either way

random AI.. yes, a little 'wild card' in the deck.. cool idea.

Louist, of course, we all commend you for throwing your pretender on that troublesome AI run annoyance.  However, might you consider it better to leave the poor AI be, just in case something more annoying is on the other side?  Decisions, decisions...