Agreed. For instance, fireballs and iceballs are different because one is hot, and another is cold. This means you could use an iceball in combat without causing a forest fire. By the same logic you can also use a fireball to clear forest to make the land useful for farming.

Never think of spells in terms of "its a fireball, so its used for X". Rather think of it as "Its a ball of fire, what can we do with it?".

Yet another very simplistic and trivial example. You lads are talking about the "secondary effects" of a given spell. We are talking about magic schools here.

Well said, and Doms 3's. magic system was a good example. You have a huge arsenal of diverse magical spells there. Magic school vs. magic school counters, air enhancement spells, which will turn your units into samurais [IE. They will hit faster ], life sucking weapon enhancements etc. etc. That is the way to go in War of Magic as well.

Tormy I get the impression that you want EWM to include the Same Old Crap or else its not going to stack up to its predecessors. You want to be able to say "Fire beats Ice, this is Truth". Hard counters between whole schools of magic. I'm trying to argue for a more open system where its not so much about what spells ARE, but what they can DO.

It is completetly possible to have complicated strategy WITHOUT hard counters. If I wanted to play Master of Magic or Dominions. I would go play Master of Magic or Dominions. I wan't EWM to be something else.

What I don't want is a fireball is comes from the "fire school of elemental magic" that hits fire elementals for zero damage. A fireball should be one of many implementations of the ability to create fire. Because if you can make a magical hand grenade, imagine what else you could do.

One of the mods I'd like to make would probably revist the magic system and explore synergistic effects between spells. Water spells (like conjured rain) could be followed by lightning for an extra 10% damage, or 10% protection from a subsequent fire spell. Freezing spells would bring in a short duration weakness to smashing attacks.

Fires might start up depending on terrain and require dosing to avoid effects. Using wind could push a sudden forest fire at someone, or hold one temporarily at bay. One life spell might exacerbate the effects of disease (accelerated growth of parasites) while a particular death spell could have the unexpected chance of healing a unit of said disease.

I enjoy exporing interactions between things in a game, and having the use of common sense rewarded. Of course I don't like it when the interaction between something breaks the game and creates a always-win strategy, hence the 10% bonus or penalty and not a 100% bonus.

Yeah, so what were we argueing about? Kind of got lost for a second there. I guess your point was that we should at least meet or exceed the conventions set by EWM's predecessors. Because why fix what isn't broken? That makes sense. My point was that we should soften up the counters a bit for both magic and general mundane combat. Fire beats ice, most of the time. But enough ice will beat any fire. And even creative use of fire can at least cancel out other fire.

Because if we don't improve on what came before... What would be the point? We might as well play what came before.

Either way. Mods FTW. All of us MoM veterans should get together and work on one sometime.

Perhaps pikes can attack from the second row, have a bonus to attack = to the number of tiles spent to reach them (or approximate movement points used ... since hopefully we won't have "tiles"), and have a relatively large attack. Meanwhile Gladius style shortswords (2 ft, double edged, broad) should have a medium attack, only attack from 1st row in a formation, however have double or triple the Pikes combat speed modifier (can attack three times for each pike attack).

Then a LongSword, or a Broad BattleSword (3-4 feet, double edged) should have a higher attack than the pike, yet only attack from first row, and have a slightly longer reach than Gladius (however pike has longest reach, at about twice a longswords reach perhaps). If a pike has an attack speed of 1, then Longsword could be 2, while Gladius could be 3 or 4.

Then Javellins have a long throwing range ... which is automatic when approached if equipped. Medium Attack at a Medium range (starting at pike range going on a ways .... 8 feet-80 feet). Any closer than that, and Javillin's attack reduces by about 30% to a more low attack rating (or a -1 attack). If a unit is being approached by enemy melee, it should be programmed to automatically retreat while attempting to fire (fighting retreat) as units close in. However, if the enemy is charging, you will probably need to order a full retreat (no firing while retreating) or else the chargers will soon meet with your Javellins and slauther them. Otherwise, you could switch to a sword and wait for them to close in.

Meanwhile, Archers could have a low attack for very far away, a medium attack for a few hundred feet, high attack from 100-200 feet, and a medium attack for 10-99 feet, and then a low attack for 1-10 feet (melee). With the option, of course, to switch to swords while the melee is closing in.

I'd say two-daggers (fine), two swords: either Special Feat or Large Size (Ogre/Troll), two GreatSwords: Special Feat AND Large Size.

I'd personally say that only heroes should reasonably be able to take a dagger against a fully armed warrior and expect to win.

It must be possible to equip a creature with more weapons. Also...why limit it to 2 weapons? This is a fantasy game, so what if a creature has more arms? Look at this one for example:

I can easily imagine, as this creature is fighting with 4 weapons in the same time.

Just a note: Creatures like this should be able to attack multiple units in the same time.

I must restrain myself to the feasible. It is HARD

It would be awesome if combat spells could react in exciting ways.

Setting trees and grass on fire. Steam dmg in a greater area when your firesword hits and icesword or when you fireball water. An earth sword grounding lightning dmg. Lightning weapons and spells doing more area dmg to units in water. Earthquake creating impassible terrain or falling rocks from a cliff. If you use life drain on a poisened unit you are poisened yourself. Wind spells moving steam and driving burning land in a direction you choose. Dust from earthquake putting out fire.

Devils in the details. Stuff like this would add a layer of magic strategy and be just plain awesome.

I was thinking more "Recruit" for that one.

As for the How much Stacking might be allowed on weapons?

I could think of a nice one-handed club with Blunt, Pierce and Slash damage, without any Magic yet.

I think we can all agree with Dsraider, as it's cool.

In response to magic schools countering one another...

I dislike that...  I'll cede right off the bat that, yes, it works, and the 'Why fix what isn't broken,' approach is just fine, especially given the setting...

But Magic is supposed to be...  Well, magical...  It never made a whole lot of sense to me for magic to be so neat and ordered.  Rather, it's meant to be chaotic power bursting forth from the hands of someone capable of Channeling that power.  NOT controlling, but Channeling.  It always seemed to me Magicians, Wizards, what have you, shouldn't be in direct control of their power, but rather, borrowing it from the already powerful forces of life, death, and nature, which, by definition, are chaotic at best, completely and utterly unpredictable at worst.

A true master of Magic, (Pun not intended, I swear,) would just be well versed in a massive deal of the possible effects of her/his spells, either through practice, or study under one experienced in magic.

While it makes perfect sense for spells to need to be dug up and researched to be gained, being able to cast a spell, and knowing what it does are two different things, at least in my mind.  You could cast what you assume is a fireball...  And it is a fireball...  You're now holding that fireball far too close, if not directly in your hand...  That can NOT be good for your skin.  Or your health.

Now, naturally, we assume our magician would have enough practice and common sense to, once summoned, toss/hurl/lob/throw/etc. said fireball...  Let's say though, that another magician entirely is trying to make the fireball leave his/her hand...  And it does...  But now that it's left their hand, they've let their focus wander, thinking it's fire-and-forget.  (Dear God, what is with the unintentional puns in this post?!)  Suddenly, their fireball blows up in their face...

My point is, magic should, by it's very nature, be a chaotic force, and strange things, even...  *Gasp*  Magical things, should be possible using it.  Predicted or not.  That's not to say the effects should be unpredictable in E:WoM, but that the idea of counters is silly.  Magic should only be limited by the imagination, and by this reasoning, counters to everything, and nothing, should exist within each circle...  Meaning, they should all balance out, not be limited in greater effectiveness to diametric opposites.

Last example...  This time, though, we'll be using two experienced magicians in combat against one another. 

Earth Magician has Fire Magician pinned far too close to a cliff.  He channels his power to shake the cliff-face, causing a rock-slide, trying to crush the Fire Mage.  Fire Mage tosses a Fireball and causes it to explode behind the falling rocks, flinging them outwards towards the Earth Mage.  In response, he calls forth an Obsidian Shield to protect him from the falling boulders.  Now Fire Mage channels a jet of flame at his Obsidian Shield, quickly heating it up, and therefore, somewhat cooking the Earth Mage inside.  So Earth Mage dissolves the areas of the shield not being directly targeted, giving himself some air.  He then causes the remaining part to violently shatter, thrusting in the direction of the Fire Mage.  He then uses his Flame Jet like a Jet-Pack to escape...  Etc, etc...  I could go on FOREVER.

Granted, stuff like this wouldn't be possible in E:WoM...  I'm just re-affirming my point, and opinion, that magic should NOT be a structured, orderly force, that hard-counters are silly, and that any circle, in skilled hands, should be as good as the next.