im checking of another fresh install,  i dont have 2 folders lol,   i installed it at first in its own folder within the entrenchment 1.03 folder   instead of the main mods folder,   that was what im saying lol,

I'm not so sure about them being invincible. In the first release before the patch, they were definately too strong, and I was all for toning them down and giving them a bigger attack radius.  That is exactly what they did in the latest patch, however, fully upgraded starbases still need defensive structures on top of them to make them a challenge?  That just doesn't seem right to me, you know?

It will always come down to tactics and who has more resources to replenish defeated forces in any kind of long battle.  For example, I played a game with everyone last weekend and used the Klingons.  One of the other players had taken over half the galaxy with his Klingon fleet and was mass-producing Vorchas.  To counter, I did the same while the remaining people tried to make a last stand of sorts.  I matched him in ship power at first and drove him back, but I had gotten stuck with asteroids for most of my planets and couldn't sustain that kind of building for long, especially when he started killing my structures and I was forced to scuttle and rebuild buildings just to keep producing Vorchas.  It would have taken a while, but there was no way I could have defeated him due to my position, income, and fleet costs. 

Basically, someone who spends their time upping their starbases and defenses has a different problem to address.  Income.  If they worry only about defensive structures, then they will likely not have a massive, or at least largely upgraded fleet to attack enemies with, even if they have a starbase.  And if they've been trying to balance out both, its still playing a game of catch-up in the long run as you need lots of money to build a starbase and accompanying defenses, and in order to have that you need planets which are more difficult to get earlier on if you're going defensive.

Someone trying to build a heavy defense can't be punished by not rushing to upgrade their ships, otherwise you have something of an unfair foil to defensive structures.  Realistically speaking, if you spend the time and money to fortify a system with defenses, you should certainly get their time and money's worth, don't you think?

If a starbase all by itself is "worth the time and money" by such definitions, then a starbase not all by itself is invincible.

The difference between a T2 weapon and T1 fortification upgraded starbase and the same tightly ringed by turrets with shield restoration going is somewhere around a thousand fleet points.

Ok  fresh install seemed to fix it.. dont get that as the download was the same, oh well   dont ask.. it works  all i care LOL

Game is sweet as heck now, cant wait to see more added.

I disagree on the starbases, i still lost a solid fleet early game to  a lightly upgraded starbase(1 hull upgrade full weapons)  i was able to beat it with a fleet of 6 capitals, 1 amb 2 defiants, 1 sov, 1 galaxy and 1 nebula, 2 Steamrunners backing..    I lost both steamrunners, the Sov and defiants both had no shields left..   Given the cost ratio on the ships (when you factor levels into it for the weapons loadout i had)  i figure it fairly balanced.. The ships with rank 1 were not able to defeat the station, with Rank 4  they were.. that added to thier cost significantly

Testing with the same fleet at rank 4 again  against the next hull upgrade(giving the kling station 20k hp) i lost all but the Sov in the fight..  again  i figure that to be around balanced..  Given that Deepspace 9 was  insanely overhauled..  Most standard starbases would not feature this kind of firepower..  my only gripe is that the Second hull upgrade was so darned expensive.. i can understand the third hull upgrade being that high due to the significant amount of survival it adds.. but the second one is a tad much, id figure around 6k cash and 1200/1200 for resorces give or take.. its a good upgrade but not 11k and 2100/2100   id figure that price for the final upgrade more then anything

Another slight issue... The defiants.. they are just to darned weak.. they can almost lose to an Amb..  dont get me wrong they cost almost nothing so it fits currently.. i just figure a cap ship should be stronger in terms of survival..  They hit hard.. but they die fast.

2 last little issues,  Cap ship levels are extreamly hard to aquire, finished a 100 planet game  any my cap ships that were involved in every fight were only rank 6, with the very first one i had at rank 7

Also  ship levels seem to only effect weapons damage..  would be nice to feature some armor/hull/shield bonus's,  in particular the defiant could be made to gain a nice hull/shield/armor bonus to encourage keeping them alive.. i love this ship seriously LOL

Hey,

Here're a couple of ideas for abilities (Fed Wise):

Tri-Cobalt Devices (either Nebula or Galaxy- personally I think Nebula would make more sense):

Ability: ACTIVE

Unlocked by one of the Torpedo upgrades (or another random upgrade).

Antimatter cost: 300/275/250

Damage to Structures: 3000/3500/4000

Reload Time: 90/75/60

While I know Voyager was the only ship (I know of at least) to carry a complement of these, they are obviously Federation technology, and certainly seem good at taking out Structures (VOY: Caretaker). Ofcourse it would probably be too overpowered if *every* Intrepid could use them, so making it a Nebula or Galaxy power makes more sense.

Ablative Hull Armour (Defiant).

Ability: PASSIVE

Unlocked by one of the armour upgrades (right now they seem to be placeholders if anything on the Fed side).

Additional Armour (vs Directed Energy Weapons): 5/10/15

Additional (vs Torpedos) Blocks 25% Torp Damage/ Blocks 50% Torp Damage/ Blocks 75% Torp Damage

Antimatter *lost* per Torpedo hit: 15/10/5

This ability is similar to the Radiance's Antimatter, however it takes a reverse approach. Since the Defiant's Abblative armour was meant to literally break off with the energy weapon beam to reflect the damage away from the ship, it obviously would eventually run out. By making this armour increase *use* antimatter, you're restricting the player's option to use other useful abilities during a firefight (as the ablative armour would lose you your antimatter very quickly).

But yeah, there's a pair of ideas- let me know what you think .

Hey, thanks for the answers on the Starbase strength.  Sorry for opening a can of worms on that one.  I can see how they could be formiddable when used in a controlled grav well with ship yards and repair platforms.  Honestly, I had not thought to use ship yards on them.  I agree with Namoge regarding the costs, they do feel quite steep to me.

Am really enjoying playing it, and with the fiancee away all week I can give it some seroious time.

Anyways, thanks again for all your hard work

the ability "defeat shields" already does this and will be on dominion ships (not card or breen ships) and borg ships only.

lets talk about the starbase for a moment so you guys can understand where i am going with it. Starbases currently as they are, are being built so you have a ability to defend yourself depending on the level of the threat. This is not really working as intended as the first release saw on this. The second release based on everyone's input was also a miss while i made them less defensive and balanced out the offensive. One thing i want to completely avoid is stand alone ultra starbases, which i think would ruin the game. I'll upgrade the starbases again, since its really going to be a hit or miss simply becuase of the human factor. The AI never plays like a human does, so Starbases balance will always be a wip, but note the starbases do not have most of the abilities added that i intend for them to have. lets think of what else is missing, strikecraft. Always a factor. that will add to the dps of the starbase, rather than take away from it. Currently the starbase is only fitted for 1000 dps, i'll increase the damage to 1250. but i don't want to go any higher than that if i can help it. Adding abilities like offensive modules and defensive ones to balance out whats missing may be the more viable way to go now.

Id not touch the starbases current stats actualy, they are more or less canon

think about it, Deep space 9 massivly upgraded  held off a dominion fleet for what.. 30 mins?   they destroyed 50 ships of assorted strengths(assume most were bugships)

Try this, send a fleet of around 300 ships against a maxxed station make it comprised of frigates and cruisers in a solid balance + various assorted cap ships, i assure you the maxxed station will do about the same..

Stations were not ment to hold off entire fleets indefinatly, they were ment to be supported.

Id just lower the cost ratio,  a Maxxed starbase can still eat a significant amount of firepower, its more then enough to stomp any minor attack at moderate upgrades, at max it can stop even most medium threats,  they just currently cost to much,  the weapon upgrades are perfect in terms of cost..  and the first hull upgrade isn't an issue, but the second and third upgrades are a tad much

Again this is an unsupported Station,  add on a shipyard or 2  and some phaser turrets.. and it becomes significantly more powerfull.

One question tho, is there a plan to add strike craft? The klings would be hard pressed to have any   but  there is cannon for Fed and Rommie strike craft..    Could pull the Kling and borg strike craft from the crappy PSX star trek invasion perhaps, that leaves just the Dominion to invent one for..    or do ya already have plans for it

During the course of the war may elite units were lost on all sides. So many factions Must rely on older ships. Most of them mothballed ships that are hundred's of years old. Refitted, and reactivated to fill specific roles required by each factions navy. For example an old Rihansu (Romulan) starship meant to destroy federation outposts, and perform planetary sieges in the 2260's. Now reactivated as a stealth starbase siege platform. Its goal to warp in, cloak, approach a starbase, uncloak, and unleash plasma torpedo hell. The original Warbird. also known as the romulan bird of prey.

Just installed this. Great stuff. Look forward to playing with you guys on Sunday.

Interesting tidbit I picked up, Rihansu (Romulans) are actually vulcans, that didn't like the idea of "absolute logic" and controlling their emotions.