Deceiver_0

Join Date 12/2008

+42

Domina Subjugator(AKA the little ship that couldn't... do anything)

A detailed look at its many flaws.

Something you are incredibly unlikely ever to hear, "Man those subjugators really f'd me up!".

The truth is the Subjugator has a variety of flaws in it's design and abilities tha make it one (if not the MOST) useless ship. While doing some tests and observation on Carrier Caps, I played around with subjugators and found out exactly why they suck, and came up with some simle ideas to fix them.

Problem # 1: Unidirectional Channeled Abilities

On the Subjugator, Suppression and Perserverance both sound like great abilities, one disables enemy abilities, weapons and phase engines. The other repairs 25 health per second and prevents disabling buffs. The problem with these abilities are that they are CHANNELED for their duration. What that means is the subjugator must remain absolutely still and be issued no commands for the full effect of both of the abilities to be used. Now I have no problem with channeled abilities, but the subjugator has the only two channeled abilities im aware of that only affect 1 unit at a time, and they can only be activated when facing the units the ability is cast on. This is counter intuitive to an Advent fleets strength as a battle ball. If you cast suppression on a unit it can still move, so when it retreats four things can happen. First the targeted ship can move away and your fleet won't follow, making the ability only serve to remove that single unt from the battle for the duration (can't target cap ships). The second is that the fleet minus the subjugator will follow leaving the subjugator stationary, alone and extremely vulnerable to everything with its weak shields and hull (550hp/300shields). The third is the advent fleet will split, leaving some behind to protect the subjugator from various enemies, destroying the battle ball. The last thing that can happen is the entire fleet breaks off into pursuit, removing the suppression from the enemy ship and making the whole point of it useless. This same thing goes for perserverance. So what's the solution?

Well there could be a couple.

1. Increase the firing arc and turn speed of the subjugator and the ability so the subjugator does not have to completely face its target. Allowing it to quickly acquire new targets for both it's abilities.

2. Allow the abilities to affect an area (though it keep it real small)

3. Remove the channeling of abilities and allow the subjugator to move freely.

Personally I think the first is the best option, keeping the subjugators uniqueness and making its abilities more useful and effective.

Problem #2: Targeting Ai bugs

I noticed a few problems with the auto cast targeting ai for these abilities. When casting suppression, subjugators will often target the same unit, and channel on the same unit, making multitudes of subjugators useless as they channel and disable a unit thats already been disabled by other subjugators. On one occassion 5 subjugators jumped into a well with suppression set to autocast and they ALL targeted the same unit out of 8 or 9 possible targets. They all sat and channeled the ability on the one unit, making 4 of the 5 completely useless. I also noted that on more than one occasion, a subjugator would wait to cast suppression on an enemy unit until the previous suppression had expired, however while waiting the enemy ship moved out of range and the waiting subjugator did not follow. It just sat and waited for that unit to return, even after the previous suppression had expired. A nasty bug. Perserverance ai would not automatically target wounded ships on several occasions, and would often target ships whose shields were still up and not under fire. Perserverance's ability to prevent disabling i feel is primarily to support guardians and help prevent them from being disabled by certain units (ahem Subverters), keeping the battle ball strong and the shields/repulse up and working. That's great except subjugators will channel at the same time on the same unit, and it costs 150AM to prevent 1 unit from being disabled for 40 seconds, which sucks when all your subjugators target the same unit and waste 150AM and have to wait 60 seconds before recasting, leaving themselves and the rest of the fleet completely vulnerable to disablement. These bugs desperately need to be fixed.

But if the devs DO fix the Domina, then the subverter needs a little love too. Currently the guardian has filled the role as the subverters boon with repulse pushing the subs out of range and unable to cast distortion field on the fleet to disable it (same could be said about Anti-AM Lf abilities ftw?!). If they fix the domina, distortion field needs to outrange repulse, or it becomes even more useless against Advent as it is now. Same goes for demo bots on the TEC side, and I truly believe that LFs anti-AM abilites should outrange repulse (and distortion field, and demobots) too, because since they Can't, there is little use for them.

If you like any of these ideas, or are strongly opposed, let me get your vote on it

HERE

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/356646

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one (if not the MOST) useless ship.

Nah, siege frigates have that distinction. Subjugator and Subverters are on relatively equal footing, and personally I prefer subjugators to heal caps. Small quantities, manually managed.

Otherwise, I totally agree with you. This is a unit that requires painstaking attention to detail to be effective. It does have the potential, but it can't be used en-mass because of this.

On one occassion 5 subjugators jumped into a well with suppression set to autocast and they ALL targeted the same unit out of 8 or 9 possible targets

This is a larger issue that affects lots of units, including strike craft. Ever watched as all 100 of your fighter squads hone in on specific squad of bombers? It's a pain to have to manually split them up into various groups attacking different targets.

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Subjugator and Subverters are on relatively equal footing,

Agreed. The Stilakus was overnerfed. It dies way too fast and Distortion Field is pathetic. Right now, the Vasari don't get any outstanding ships at all.

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Subverters were over nerfed. They should regain some HP.

Dominas as nasty peice of shit and I am quite happy I don't see more of them.

Me I would leave them mostly as they are. But remove the channeling but increase the AM cost of it'S abilaties. This would make them similer in use to hoshiko's but their gonna be a hell of a lot stronger.

Perseverence is powerfull, it can cancel out all effect the enemy will cast on your fleet. I'm prety sure you can use it to cancel out Nano Dissasembler.

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considering it has two abilites, idk about increasing the AM cost of them

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Thats tot he layer to use only 1 abilaty on 1 ship. Thats player management for game balance you will need the increase or you'll be back here screaming to nerf it. Dominas esily have by the nature of their abilaties the power to be the best support cruisers by far. Personaly they are already Extremly powerfull. The way to use them is to not fleet them at all. All dominas need to be 100% independent and boy they work wonders.

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Perseverence is powerfull, it can cancel out all effect the enemy will cast on your fleet. I'm prety sure you can use it to cancel out Nano Dissasembler.

This is not the case. Perserverance can only Prevent a ship from being disabled in anyway. This ability is aimed at stopping demo bots, distortion field, ion bolt, phase out hull, suppression etc. It does not cancel negative buffs like nano or designate target, shield disruption etc.

For nano disassembler, it will heal most of the damage done by the bots themselves but the negative armor buff will still be there.

Personally I think the fact that they must channel their abilities is what amkes them unique and balances the power of their abilities, I just thing they need an easier time targeting and using thier abilities cuz as it stands now, a ship needing perserverance will most likely be dead before a Domina can cast on it.

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Thats why you need to have them unfleeted while in battle. Makes them much more effective then if their fleeted. It's a management thing realy. But yes it's anoying sinc eif their not fleeted it means more hassel to manage them. Kill the chanelling will allow their use while they are part of a fleet.

Their is a way to not make the abilatie cost more AM. And that is to make the cool down as long as the abilaty will last at the very least.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

I use them in much the same way. Sure, they require a rediculous amount of microing, but, once you do that, you just created the most powerful support cruiser. I like them and think that they really aren't all that bad. Honestly, I think removing the channeling part would be the best way to make them capable of independent operation

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Its not that they require a ridiculous amount of microing

Its just that it requires a ridiculous amount of TEDIOUS microing.

I dont mind lots of micro aslong as its graceful and fun, and your not fighting against your own Ships AI inadequate movement routines and stupidity to keep it doing what its suppose to do.

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Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008

+115

True, but I can't stand letting the AI fight by itself so I'm constantly supervising every battle and manage each ship individually (sure I ought to spend more time on macro, but still, its more fun this way...) It fits my style just fine. Honestly, I just group my ships into four or five together and control each squad as a whole, vastly improving the effectiveness of combat. For me, the Domina is pretty much perfect as it fits my style to the point.

My philosophy on battles: If the AI did something you didn't tell it to, its probably did something wrong.

Every ship can be microed to the point where I can win most of the time even when outnumbered three and sometimes (if the enemy is stupid enough) four to one...

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